“The world is a stage and its men and women are merely its actors” William Shakespeare.
PWN - I believe that the world is in fact a video game, kinda like the Matrix.
PWN - Ahm, well let’s not get bogged down in details here.
JAFHR- The French philosopher Descartes wrote that we cannot be sure of anything- “what if some evil genie was making me believe my hand is where it is?” He then realised that, in this world or another, two plus two will always equal four. Thus he set up the Cartesian School- a school of thinking which looks at things from a mathematical point of view. We can look at a circle, and be sure that it exists because it is possible to work out that it is a circle. We can now see that the world cannot be fake, for it is made up of maths.
PWN - Maths was built around the world, not the other way around.
JAFHR- Really? When you study circles, does the teacher bother about demonstrating that a perfect circle exists? As you said, let’s not get bogged down to details; a circle exists in theory, and a philosopher would argue that the world is a theory.
PWN - Could we get back to the point please?
JAFHR- Is this not the point?
PWN - Not really, can’t we just discuss the practical points of this before the philosophical implications?
JAFHR- What is this practical point, then?
JAFHR- Many theologians would say that the world is indeed a computer game, and the ‘Grand Engineer’ (in the words of Voltaire) is God.
PWN - That’s a very good point. If our world has been engineered, then does it matter?
JAFHR- It does not, however you would need to prove His existence.
PWN - Which is pretty much impossible. But if God is not necessarily perfect, then why doesn’t He blow stuff up and such, rather than act rather passively. Doesn’t He get bored? Or is that part of the human condition?
JAFHR- I think Christian, Jewish and Muslim theologies all agree that god is perfect, and, if you trust that he exists, you trust that he is perfect. In my memory, only one religion believes in a bad single god; a secretive tribe in an island off Mexico, the name of which escapes me. These people believed this because the conditions of the island were so dreadful; to them, he did indeed ‘blow stuff up’. This is possibly comparable to the game “Pocket God”, available on the Apple App store.
In most mythologies, there are many gods- they are like the many admins of this blog; there are some “good Gods” (me) and some “bad” gods (JHWW) who try to destroy what the good gods have made.In this scenario the bad gods are like enemy players in a Multi-player, or possibly the baddies in any respectable game. I personally believe that the gods are players just the same as we are, but that is another story. Whether we have a unique god or multiplayers, it is clear that, if the world is a computer game, it is clear that a certain someone has taken a great deal of care to make it so that we, the WoW players, could enjoy it in the fullest. If life is a computer game, does that make it any less real, then?
JAFHR- If the 'Machines' you are talking about can be called gods-which by definition they are- then see my previous response to see why the gods do not "blow things up".I have just argued extensively that the world cannot be false - perhaps there is a bigger world out there,like at the end of every MIB film, but certainly nothing which we need to be aware of.
PWN - I suppose you are right. The bigger world is somewhat irrelevant if nothing we can do can allow us to experience it. On that note, I think we should end this discussion. Please leave your own opinion in the comments below.
I would remind any admins that editing an entry that is not rightfully yours can be punishable by demotion/expulsion.
ReplyDeleteYes, but that's under the rule that you do not provoke/ declare war on other admins, especially one of the great three- " There are some bad gods like JHWW who try to ruin everything the gods have created" well perhaps I should try to ruin everything- maybe I agree with PWN maybe the world is just a game kinda like the Matrix (although I never saw it...). Maybe we are just controlled by machines- after all we're having an argument on the internet... anyway, what if that crazy old French philosopher was wrong- a genie is not making me write what I write, defiance is- maybe 2+2 does not equal four in one world or another. Properties of a circle may be the same, and the world may be made of mathematics, but if you look at a video game, there are piles and piles of codes and running scripts that enable the video game to be a video game- the world has been formed so that everything goes by the rules in the script. If you suggest that these machines running the scripts are gods- they are not- they are machines designed to do what is told of them... and PWN what do you mean the bigger world is irrelevant.I have just proved that the world is controlled by machines- so the bigger world is of course relevant- because moving up in levels in a game is relevant to try to conquer the game. So far, noone has- in my opinion. Everything in the world is like a game. When I learnt about stock markets and commodities, I saw it as just a huge game of monopoly. School is a game- it is survival, and training for further advances later. If I'm looking at the world like this, then God is perhaps a series of hints, of how to do well in the game. If you trust Him, he will give you help... and if you don't believe in him, like me, then you wil not receive help, but it is a far better feeling when you know that you live life as it is, and do not bother about this debate, and be happy when you do well. But that is another point I will not go into. My point is that life is just a huge game- jobs are games- machines run scripts for our paths which all lead to the ultimate,the end of the game. All possibilities are laid out to us, and we can choose what possibility, like we can choose what to do in a game- but sometimes there are more possibilities than other times, but it all leads back to the same fact that in fact life is just a huge game. Well rant over, I kept my promise that I would argue with most comments on this blog. Feel free to comment my comment, especially you JAFHR and PWN
ReplyDeleteYes, Life is a game, but you're sort of missing the point- the debate was about life being an illusion. You seem to be making a series of sweeping statements, like: machines do what they are told.Do we know that? They are only machines in the Matrix,and only one example out of many;you are basing your whole response on the irrelevant point of an example. Machine is a word; one could easily say 'god' and be just as justified.
DeleteLife is a game with great odds, yes,but all the more real for it.By the bigger world, we meant the Coders of the computer game; they are indeed irrelevant, because we'll never meet them.
You also say that 2+2 may not always equal four; the unique thing about logics and mathematics are that they cannot be denied.
Think of it this way: imagine a world where there is no gravity, where living beings are bigger than houses, trees are blue, etcetera. Take two twigs, and another set of two twigs.Changing the laws of physics will not change the fact that you are now holding four twigs.
Finally,I think you misunderstood my light jibe-I am sorry you took it seriously, but I did not mean to declare war on you when I compared you to an evil god.
Good day
I also forgot to say that Descartes is one of the founders of modern scientific and philosophical approach,and calling him 'Some Crazy old Philosopher' is not the best way to seem educated.
DeleteBut if he was educated on the grounds of philosophy, he isnt really educated, as there are no wrongs in philosophy. This is why I find it such a " fluffy" subject
ReplyDeleteI also said "Science". His way to look at things revolutionised scientific analysis,and led to the discovery of the Brownian Motion, which eventually proved the existence of the atom.
DeleteAnd you say there are no mistakes in philosophy- what did you just do,then?
Deletea) maths can be denied, as mathematicians have written many theories to show that 1=0- we were shown this in maths.
ReplyDeleteb) this is taken from TV show "Friends" but science can be denied. As one of the character states " 40 years ago, you thought the atom was the smallest thing- then you were able to split it open and this whole bunch of cr*p came out" who knows, science can repeat itself
c) what do you mean what did I just do? To all you readers, in case you didn't know, I hate anything to do with philosophy. In my opinion, if you can say outrageous thing like this pipe is not a pipe, but a table, I am perfectly within my rights to say... jellyfish believe in capitol punishment..there are those who take baths, and those who take showers... all these ideas could be true- and so could my idea that philosophy has no wrongs, as there is a eay to prove it- what I have just done now.
d) perhaps life is an illusion- we dream every night, and fantasise during the day of what an ideal life could be- we se oursekves in the future as football players, rock stars etc. We hope that some day the government will pass a law saying that every day is Friday. All of these are illusions- and we wouldn't have life without them
e) didn't you just say to me that you hypothetically devlared war on me earlier. And didn't I make it clear in my introductory post that I was the one to argue and disagree with posts made on this blog?
Good dag to you sir, and I would love to see the opinions of PWN
Mathematics Cannot be denied, not unless you move to unstable ideas like quadratics. You cannot deny that, if you are holding two twigs in each hand, you are holding four twigs.
ReplyDeleteSecondly I was hoping to avoid having to explain the principles of philosophy, but here goes...
Philosophy is split into three segments:
1.Metaphysics- the study of the immaterial and that which is not visible, EG. the essence of being.
2.Moral and Political- ideas such as Liberty of Speech.
3.Scientific- The implications of philosophy in discoveries such as the making of the universe.
As you can see, Philosophy is more structured than most would have you think;In addition, something can only be declared philosophically valid if it can be argued reasonably.I'm afraid there is not much of a case for the beheading of jellyfish.
I think that, having decided that mathematics are not changing-even if science might- we may state with all certainty that this world exists, even if it is a smaller world made by bigger things.
Awaiting your response,
JAFHR.
Leave him alone- JHWW is right, philosophy is stupid, boring, and a waste of time. You also said yourself that maths is unstable(quadratics). Philosophy is just like a string. It can't be cut with a given length- you have to keep guessing about it. Life is all an illusion, and you know it- you just don't want to lose this argument.
ReplyDeleteQuadratics are stable, except for the fact that there is more than one answer.
ReplyDeleteYou have not listened to my more recent comments, and you know NOTHING about philosophy, if you find it involves any amount of guesswork. What on earth did you even mean by guesswork?
What do you mean, I know that the world is an illusion? On the contrary, it is you who is losing this argument-none of your points have proper backing. This shows me why you think philosophy is unstable - you know very little about it (i.e. you did not know about Descartes) so you are forced to look at your own philosophy- and, I quite agree, YOUR philosophy is unstable in the extreme.
Finally, no strange name can disquise the fact that it was YOU, JHWW, who argued and lost so pityfully.
Hoping you shut up,
JAFHR.